Agnosticism
- Locked due to inactivity on Aug 4, '16 4:22pm
Thread Topic: Agnosticism
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The biggest reason that I still believe there couldn't be a god or a higher power is what you said,this world sucks.There's so much pain and he's not doing anything about it.
@Bob I never,ever said we have the best body or that our bodies are perfect.Why do you keep using those two words?
What you say is totally logical,but come to think of it.The existence of this order and complication in the world could not be purely due to evolution.
Living things want to live,right?So how come a human being that only wants to survive,could be ready to sacrifice his own life only to save the life of the one he loves?This exists man,even in animals.
It doesn't make sense to me that some things explode(or whatever)and they create a world or let's say a few billion galaxies.This galaxies keep working together just as everything living in them(I never deny life on other planets)do and they don't fail.There are things that make the whole world not fail,and they can not be only because of-as you say- evolution. -
Evolution only applies to biological life.
Planets, solar systems, galaxies, ect; that's astrophysics.
I keep saying the word "perfect" because you asked me how the world wasn't perfect. You yourself asked,
"Well,don't you think all this order in the world and the fact that everything in the world works so perfectly could mean that a higher power-that is wise too- has made this world?"
I said that the world wasn't perfect, and you asked me how. So now I'm explaining how imperfect everything is and you're questioning why I'm doing so? Keep with your own topic, please.
Not to mention how contradictory you're acting. Even in your last post,
"The biggest reason that I still believe there couldn't be a god or higher power..."
"Could not be purely due to evolution"
Then what then? What are you saying? You aren't making any sense. You're hinting at some alterior opinion. You keep hinting at something and probing at something. You claim you aren't religious and yet you're asking all these questions over and over again; rewording them like you're trying to stump me. Why?
Back to your post, Galaxies don't keep working. Some are snuffed out of existence. Some devour each other. Some are burning hot and compact. Some are nothing more than clouds. They don't work perfectly. And the only reason they form at all in the first place is gravity. Not evolution.
And human beings wanting to sacrifice themselves is another one of those questions where you're wording it to fit what you want me to say.
If I asked you, "Do you want to die?" The answer would usually be, "no".
If I asked you, "Do you want your child to die?" The answer would once again be, "no".
People sacrificing themselves with a goal in mind isn't the same as willfully dying. You are still preserving life.
Not to mention that 8 out of 10 people in this world have been raised to believe that they'll be rewarded once they die. Preservation is logical. Religion is being trained to ignore logic.
Honestly, you're prodding to get the answers you want. It's like you're trying to ask "got'cha" questions. Not actual inquiries. -
First of all,I admit I said the world works perfectly,but I never ever said our bodies(humans)are the best or ARE perfect.You kept bringing me reasons that many animals have better senses than us or are better than us and that's why I said that.
I said I'm not religious and that's true.Do you have to believe in religions just to believe that there could be a god?
My point is,I'm trying to tell you that the whole world could not be only created by evolution and gravity.I'm trying to tell you that the chance of the existence of a higher power or god is not as little as a rock that can revive dead people.
By perfectly I didn't mean everything works best,I meant to point out the order in the world.Come to think of it,if everything was so perfect and worked best that we didn't need anything,wouldn't the world already be eden?The perfection I meant to point out is the cooperation of things in the world that has caused the whole world not to fail.
There are many people who commit suicide,people who sacrifice their lives.
I myself am ready to die to save the lives of those I love and I don't believe in any religion.Even if I have a reason or goal for this(as you said),it's still against your laws of surviving.Isn't it? -
"Do you have to believe in religion just to believe that there could be a god?"
religion/rilijn/
Noun:
1) The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods
Now on your topic about the lack of credibility of the physical world, would you mind telling me one thing out there that can't be explained with science? Just one? Everything out there that humans once thought was supernatural and mysterious, we have studied and been able to understand. And the really fantastic thing about it is that every mystery, throughout history, has always turned out to be not magic.
Does the thought of learning frighten you? The idea that something might enlighten you or brighten you? Does it bother you that you could learn all of this in 10 minutes on wiki-fuckin-pedia.
Isn't this enough? Just this world? Just this beautiful, complex, wonderfully unfathomable, natural world? How does it so fail to hold our attention that we have to diminish it with the invention of cheap man made myths and monsters?
The world is out there. And it is wonderful without magic. -
First:Please.
Insane people like ice cream.You like ice cream.Does that make you insane?(This is just an example.If this is wrong,I can give you a thousand more.)
Religious people believe in a super human power.I believe in a super human power.Does that make me religious?
Second:Bob,you're telling me facts that I already admit and believe.Did I ever once talked about things being magical?Did you read my post?I totally don't get it.You're changing the topic.You didn't answer any of my questions. -
Isn't that the ice cream man fallacy?
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You asked three questions in the post I responded to.
-Does believing in a God make you religious?
-Wouldn't a perfect world mean Eden?
-Isn't self sacrifice against self preservation?
I answered all three of these questions.
Your latest post started out by trying to use the topic of another thread of mine against me. But your application only shows how much you actually got out of it. Putting A and B together is dangerous, but that danger derives from not knowing if A and B are related. My answer to your question was the actual definition of religion. The qualifications for which you actually specified in your question. So YES, believing in a God does actually make you religious. The logical fallacy I was talking about would be like saying, liking fish makes you religious. That is a logical fallacy. But literally admitting to fitting the definition of religion DOES mean you are religious. No matter how much you claim you're not. Because claiming something, and then admitting to doing the exact opposite, is not only confusing, but it's lying to yourself more than anything. This is why I have been asking what you were wanting me to say. Your questions aren't focused on actually learning anything. They're focused on trying to trip me up and use faulty logic to try and make science sound flawed.
And as for the questions in your latest post.
1)Does that make you insane?
2)Does that make me religious?
3)Did I ever once talk about things being magical?
4)Did you read my post?
1) No. The grouping of this question is flawed. Ice cream and insanity have no correlation. There is nothing to tie these two groups together.
2)Yes. Believing in a God is literally what religion is. These two topics are directly related. Yes. Believing in a God makes you religious.
3)You said you believe in a God. That's pretty much the definition of magic. Or do I need to bring up the definition for that, too?
4) Apparently so, since I've had to quote most of them back to you. -
Bob,I don't know about your thread.I just use that example to tell you that for being something,you must fit in all their description.Let me say it another way,
Many girls like the color pink and have boobs.
You like the color pink,you don't have boobs.Are you a girl?
Christians believe in god,bible and jesus.You only believe in god.Are you christian?
As you know,being religious doesn't only include believing in god.You have to believe in many other things as well.
"Religious:A person bound by monastic vows"
Let's solve the problem here,then we'll proceed to next topics.This is getting confusing. -
This is funny.I hadn't seen your thread when I used that example.Though,the purpose of our examples are totally different.
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Theists believe in a theistic God. You believe in a theistic God. You ARE a theist. I never said Christian. I said religious.
And no, religion literally is just the belief in a God or Gods. That's all there is.
And your definition of religious describes priesthood.
The definition for a follower is slightly different.
religious (r-ljs)
adj.
1. Having or showing belief in and reverence for God or a deity. -
I simply googled it and it gave me that definition.
Can you describe a theistic god? -
Theism generally holds that God exists realistically, objectively, and independently of human thought; that God created and sustains everything; that God is omnipotent and eternal; personal and interacting with the universe through for example religious experience and the prayers of humans. It holds that God is both transcendent and immanent; thus, God is simultaneously infinite and in some way present in the affairs of the world. Not all theists subscribe to all the above propositions, but usually a fair number of them do.
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God in my opinion might be anything,it might be bunch of angels,the god you just described or anything.It might be anything.I don't believe in any specific definition for god,because I don't know much about him.
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This conversation isn't going anywhere.
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Yeah.What I was trying to tell you was that the chance of a god existing is much more than a rock that revives the dead so that you would admit it's logical to be agnostic.You know,we don't have enough information about the universe to judge how it's been created at the first place.Don't you admit?
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