Question
- Locked due to inactivity on Aug 4, '16 4:22pm
Thread Topic: Question
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What do you think of the idea that all things happen because the natural laws of the universe were created by God? And not just stuff like the Big Bang and black holes, but also that chaos takes hold when there are no laws against things like murder, rape, or stealing. To be honest, I heard this idea, and it blew my mind.
I'm especially interested in what Barberbob has to say to this. -
On the aspect of a beginning of everything, whilst one theory is as good as the next, the big bang is still the most comprehensible and logically explainable. We may not be able to prove the big bang beyond a shadow of a doubt, but we will be able to support the idea more than any other story. So whilst on that idea alone, I cannot personally tell theism that they are wrong, I can still feel comfortable in stating that logic points against.
As for the idea on murder, rape, and theft being directly correlated to a divine law, look at it in perspective of actual laws. If a murderer, rapist, or burglar are going to commit their crime, they'll do it with or without someone telling them not to. -
Yes, but wouldn't the murderer or rapist feel sick after performing such acts since there is a set of divine laws against it? I mean, if there were no laws against such acts, how would humanity come to the conclusion that it is wrong? Would any human being have a conscience or a sense of right and wrong if such laws did not exist?
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Under that same logic, what is it that keeps your family dog from mauling your face off in your sleep?
All laws were based off of morality. Would you agree?
And morals at their most basic sense are simply, "Ouch. That hurts. Don't do that to me and I won't do that to you."
So what is it that makes the murderer stay awake at night? Or the burglar turn themselves in? Or the rapist seek forgiveness? Is it the fear of some wizard in the sky who's going to punish you? Or is it the humans inability to stop imagining what it would be like to be the victim or the victims family? The regret and sympathy. The self hatred and blame. It's the guilt you put on yourself. Any organism developed enough to experience empathy, whether they have a God or not, understand these rules.
The only difference between us and them is we've written them down and convinced ourselves they're magical. Kinda silly, no? -
I suppose, if you describe religion as "magic".
I know that at least with the Christian God, magic does not exist. Magic is illusion, whereas God's power is divinity.
Also, my dog doesn't chew my face off because I trained it not to. You can train a dog to fight. You can train a dog to kill. Dogs are imcomparable to humans because they were not created in God's image, therefore they never received a conscience. In other words, a dog's brain is developed like not a human's brain. A dog's mind is not as capable as a human's mind. Dogs are not at the top of the food chain. They could never develop morals. They can never learn to speak, build, or create. However, human beings can. Humans have such capabilities because they were given to us. -
magic/majik/
Noun:
The power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.
Also, if you had to train your dog not to chew your face off, then I need to know what breed that is so I'll know to avoid it.
We've kept conversations pleasant until now. But I have seen more love and compassion in a dog than I have in any religion ever combined.
I could go into the genetic evolution of man. The similarities between humans and animals. Or the superiority that different animal species have over man.
I could go into the professional psychological analyzation of different species of animals. I could go into the study of behavioral patterns and the study of personality and social status.
This is a subject that hits home with me, and if you're going to be one of those people who tell me Animals are less then people I'm going to end this conversation right now with a swift and final 'Fuck you.' -
Don't get me wrong, I love animals. I like them better than most people. My dog is my best friend. I was talking mentally. Physically, many animals are far superior to humans. Notice how I never said that humans are superior to animals. I merely stated that humans are the most mentally capable of all animals. I myself believe that once an animal dies it goes to Heaven, even though it goes against the Church's beliefs. I just can't see why God would create something for humans to love on Earth only to have it taken away from us once we get to Heaven. Humans are animals, which I find many other theists seem to deny that fact. We have a scientific name (homo sapien). We have blood running through our veins and organs and everything that so many other animals have. We were simply given the gift of knowledge. I do believe that it was done through evolution, though, unlike what so many other theists believe.
And it's not the breed, it's just the dog. We found her on the street and I refused to let my parents put her to sleep. Anyway, she's loving and kind now. She just needed a compassionate and understanding trainer. But if you still want to know she's a labrodor retriever. And that type of behavior is rather unique to the dog since it's rare to the breed. She could be a mix, but we're not sure. -
Rascal, I think that animals weren't made in Gods image is because He wants animals to be animals. If animals were made in Gods image, then they will not be animals, would they?
Animals do have a conscience. You're just too ignorant to recognize it.
I agree with Bob.
Either than that, I have no idea what you just said. -
Late post xP
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By definition, God is a wizard. He does magic tricks.
(At this point, I'll apologize in advance for language, but this subject is one that really pisses me off)
And when you stated, "Never received a conscience", "not as capable as a human brain", and "never develop morals" you desensitized Dogs. You made us sound so fucking superior.
Not to mention it became obvious that the entire explanation of the common sense of morality, the correlation between morals and laws, the psychological theory of the conscience, and the fact that all self aware life shares these emotions and feelings, was completely useless. You didn't even take any of it in. It didn't even phase you. Not a second thought or a moment of self question. Twas all for not.
Maybe it's just hype talking at this point, but I'm tired of trying to get through and hoping someone will actually apply anything I say to their own knowledge. Actually question themselves and try and take it into consideration.
It might as well be 2 hours ago for all what I'm saying matters. -
Humans ARE animals. We fall into the animal kingdom. Go back to 8th grade science class.
And upon rereading my post (and self-proclaiming that my iPod is going to be the death of me), I do in fact in see error where I stated that animals do not have a conscience. I was trying to get across my point that other animals do not have the same mental capability humans do. I was not clear in what I meant and am currently finding that it comes across completely different from how I intended. My bad.
And don't read into what I say. I'd say I'm pretty straight forward when attempting to make a point. -
@barberbob When I say that humans are more mentally capable than animals, I mean that humans are capable of math and science and the such while other animals are not.
My God, I sound more and more horrible the more I read that post. Again, my bad. -
The bottom line is that you a still claiming that we are special. That one advantage over other species automatically makes us the divine end result.
That a species that is killed more by pulling vending machines on-top of ourselves than by shark attacks annually is supposedly the most intelligent simply because we proclaim to be made by a wizard in the fucking sky. Bull. Shit.
In God's image. Yeah, fucking right. Apparently if we were made in God's image, then God apparently prefers the idea of an appendix, who's only job is to one day eventually rupture and kill you. Thanks God! Glad we were created with a time bomb in our sides. But I guess I'm not supposed to question that. After all, you do work in mysterious ways.
Fucking shit. -
James has a point.
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And horses can do math.
Cats and dogs can read.
It's not that special.
If anything we've trained ourselves how to do that. So if you're going to counter the earlier part of this post with, "We trained them how to do it" then once again we are no better. We have to train kids how to do it too. No different.
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