Religious Red pill or Blue pill
- Locked due to inactivity on Aug 4, '16 4:26pm
Thread Topic: Religious Red pill or Blue pill
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The biggest question I have ever found relevant to the existence or non-existence of of "God" is actually the question of whether or not infinity exists.
To discover the answer to the question ask yourself this: If you start writing consecutive intergers will there come a point that you could no longer record unique numbers?
cantors proof shows that mathematically, infinity exists, but that still leaves the contraversy of human longevity. how long can you write before you die? and if you leave the work to one generation after another, how many numbers will they record before they too fade from existence, and better: even if you could somehow keep the recording going ad infinium, would there come a time when the number simply exceeded our ability to conceive and imagine?
Well, certainly, there will come a time when either consciousness reaches an omega point, or all relevant species have a total exctintion.
So the true question is whether or not, the numbers exist if we are not around to count them; or more classically, if a tree falls in the middle of the forest and no body is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
BLUE PILL:
existence is independant of human consciousness
If existence is independant of human consciousness, then numbers generate spontanteously and continuously forever. If numbers generate spontaneously and continuously forever then there exists an infinite amount of possibilities in the unvierse, and the universe is infinitely large, populated and complexly structured.
Presupposing that the universe is infinite, and that a monkey at a type writer, givin infinity would eventually randomly create the complete works of william shakespeare, such a being as an all powerful, all knowing, all loving being would have been created at some point. An all powerful being would have instantly effected the world and shaped according to his will.
Inevitably there would have existed eqaully powerful, and knowledgable counter forces which comprised a fuller spectrum of emotion than we are capable of qauntumfying as the spectrum would have been infinite.
These counter forces would have eqaully instant and powerful effect on the universe generating the force we call "nature" which is seemingly emotionless in make as it's effects are random.
These infinite beings would not be able to interfere with eachother in any way as they are all infinitely powerful and knowledgable. Because of this they can be called collectively "God".
"God" is nature, therefore nature is "God's" will. "God" is infinite, therefore nature is infinite.
Humanity is natrual therefore we are both infinite and infinitely moral.
Our existence is as indivudals and as a species, indeed as a universe is unlimited in any way conceivable or unconceivable.
THE RED PILL: -
THE RED PILL:
if existence is not independant of consciousness then imagination is in control of existence. If imagination is in control of existence, then existence is finite because imagination is finite.
Presupposing that imagination is in control of reality, then nothing that is impossible is conceivable. Every thought that has ever been imagined exists in some capacity, somewhere in space, time, or multiverse reality. If everything that can be conceived of is possible, then the death of all conscious beings is possible. If imagination is required for existence then after imagination, existence disapears. If existence will eventually disapear, then an end existence, and time exists as a linear and finite resource. if time is relevant, then it is possible to aquire all knowledge that exists in the universe, and at that point no more numbers would be generated, and imagination would cease to exist. if imagination ceased to exist, existence would cease to exist.
Humans exist, therefore a being which knows everything is inconceivable. "God" is all knowing, therefore "God" is inconceivable.
we govern every aspect of life with our minds an the world we created is our will. However when "God" exists, his presence will destroy our consciousness.
CHOOSE: -
CHOOSE:
The red pill, or the blue pill -
This logic reminds me of some things I heard as a joke. Which seem to follow similar reasoning.
Nobodies perfect, I'm nobody. Therefore I'm perfect.
And
100% of my human samples are me. Therefore all humans are me. -
Red pill
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No I read wrong. I mean blue pil
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Red pill
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@geek if `100% of your human samples are you, then all YOUR humans are you ;)
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My only issue with your logic Slim is that it seems to jump to a lot of conclusions and make presumptions in a "black or white" style of thinking.
There are different kinds of infinities. Some are bigger than others. To keep to your numbers theme, if you counted all positive numbers, you would have an infinite number of numbers. Yet if you counted all negative AND positive numbers, you would have an infinity that is twice as large as your previous infinity.
So while space is to our knowledge infinite, and everything is infinitly improbably different infinities encompass different things. A logical fallacy is still a logical fallacy. -
Red pill
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The mind can't understand infinity.
Only disabled people can apparently. -
@bob
ok, on the topic of infinity, I'm not SURE I understand you so stop me if I'm wrong, but changing the phrasing of my original question from whether infinity exists to if the universe is infinite clears up the grey area.
then on the topic of logical fallacy.
I believe you mean that in a universe of infinite possibilities 2 plus 2 will still equal 4?
If so, then this issue really leads back to the original question. If the reality exists independent of "us" then yes, some outer force generates nature, and natural laws such as logic which we have no control over.
if reality existence depends on "us", then the natural laws such as logic are internally governed, so 2 plus 2 equals 4 ceases to be true when no one's looking.
So a logical fallacy is only still a logical fallacy if a tree can fall in the middle of a forest with no one to hear and still make a sound. -
@Slim
I think I see where I lost you.
Your theory is based on infinite improbability. The idea that in an infinite amount of space that anything WILL happen. The WILL in that sentence is an assumption. To the best of our observations, our universe is infinite in space and time. Yet infinite in two ways, does not mean infinite in every way.
Time and space make up our realm of reality. So having something that is incorporeal and takes credit for creating everything else would still not happen because that combination does not exist within our reality.
(I think I'm still being a little confusing but I hope it makes a bit more sense) -
not confusing at all, I gotcha now.
in order to get one of everything, we need to have an infinite supply of an infinitely varied amount of resources.
The reason I used numbers as the major theme for the blue pill is because every resource which we know of like, time, energy, matter, space ect. can be assigned a negative, positive, or neutral value.
That's a numbers game, so we can call it bijection and then list the few resources which to the best of our knowledge are infinite (0, 1, 2, 3...) so with a solid set of numbers we can created an array of number lines and apply diagonal correspondence to identify infinite numbers by subtracting or adding the value of one to any of our originally listed resources.
Infinite infinites of resources.
of course you could always calculate exactly how infinitely improbable it is and mix it with a fresh cup of very hot tea :P -
My point still stands that something that supposedly exists outside the fields of our reality cannot be created by or create said reality.
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