Is it O.K.
- Locked due to inactivity on Aug 4, '16 4:29pm
Thread Topic: Is it O.K.
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Mysterious gal NewbieO.K. If you can't see what he is doin', well...no offence, but your blind. He is changing our country.
But, not in the way we hoped -
During his reign as president the country has fell further into the craphole.
With stuff like Ukraine where america took no action yet pissed off putin.
And a recent law where americans living abroad who haven't paid taxes must pay all american taxes they haven't paid yet. Meaning my friends gran will have to pay 80 years of taxes, which she can't.
Not to mention even more debt that america has. -
LOL. I really just have to laugh at this. Look, Obama by no means has been perfect, but think about the mess he inherited. Two wars that weren't paid for, an economy on the verge of collapsing. It seems to me that every perceived failure is magnified. I don't think that is just about him, the media these days is just so omnipresent and they like to stir up s---. No one talks about the successes though, like the fact that Afghanistan had a successful presidential election, or that the economy has pretty much fully recovered and is even growing, or that there has been strong job growth in health care and renewable energy. So maybe you see a craphole, but I don't. I think there are a lot of problems in this country that will take more than four or eight years to fix but that ultimately the country has been better under Obama's leadership than it was when Bush left office, or when Bush was still in office for that matter.
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Mysterious gal NewbieTongue, you do have a point. But, with all due respect, did you read the news? Obama let go FIVE prisoner terrorists. WITHOUT THE OK OF CONGRESS. You call that OK? Sheesh!!! We are suppose to work together, not let our leaders decide! That's not working together, from what I have heared. Letting our leader decide everything FOR us is creating the same things we tried to destroy when the pilgrims moved here! A Dictatorship. I don't want to see Democracy fade away.
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Technically he doesn't need the approval of Congress, Commander in Chief means he decides military matters. Also this idea that letting leaders decide something for us being contrary to our values is false. Representative democracy means we entrust others with political decisions. I will say the system could be better but the fact of the matter is that Obama was elected twice by a margin of 10 million votes. If our "winner take all" system is displeasing to you then you should do some reading on parliamentary democracy, which is what Canada and the United Kingdom have. There is some value to those systems. But don't confuse yourself into thinking that Obama is somehow a dictator when the system that got him into office worked exactly the way it was designed to work.
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Mysterious gal NewbieYes, but to decide on his own???? I know he is not a dictator, but I am mightily displeased with his doings. It's OK if you have different beliefs, Tongue. You have yours, I have mine. And Mine says, I'm not happy with what he's doing. I will do some reading, but I believe to you my answer will be the same.
I am a christian, and I am not happy with the whole abortion thing, and, he at least should have gotten their OK. The thing that upsets me most is, would Washington be proud with Obama believing everyone should get the same amount of money no matter how hard he works? And would Lincoln be happy that he let go those five terrorists. He may be thinking that our country needs his help. We do, but we do NOT need him to release five men in exchange for one man who deserted the u.s.
My point is,He didn't need the approval of congress, but he needs to think about America. What the people want. The president is just the voice of our country. And, he needs to think in the mind of Washington, or Lincoln. "Is it wise?"
He is just the voice, not the body. -
Im sure he was thinking about the ccoury when deciding to do what he did, and im sure he is more then 3 times more capable of making a good decision then you.
Either way it IS his decision to make. So spend your emotional energies on something more productive then whining my friend. -
Understand that there is a distinction between beliefs and statements that are simply not true. Example: "Obama believes everyone should get the same amount of money no matter how hard they work". There is no evidence that this true. He has expressed concern about income inequality, and I can understand how some may be bothered by that, because it implies that the government should take a bigger role in the economy and do more to support the poor. But he has never said "everyone should get the same amount of money" nor is it a reasonable assumption. Another example: "This soldier deserted the U.S." I can't flat out say that is wrong, but consider the source. Fox News is blatantly biased against Obama and has stooped to misrepresenting information or flat-out lying in order to push their agenda. So I think it is reasonable to think they are doing just that in saying that the soldier we exchanged terrorists for was a deserter.
I don't say any of this to demean or disrespect you or your opinions. I am merely giving you suggestions on how you can better form them. -
Mysterious gal NewbieYour right. Guilty as charged. It makes perfect sense of how we should just not care about what is happening to our country. We just should pay attention to our own lives and Let Obama take care of our crashing world.
Is that really what you believe?
I allow you to have a say. I'm not judging you. I am simply stating my opinion that I know as a fact. I cant say your wrong as you can't for me. But, I would like to tell you something that I just want you to listen. Listen. I am asking you to LISTEN. Not believe.
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the
governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to b -
Mysterious gal Newbieought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
Don't you see Tonque? All these men who signed the declaration of independance believed all of should have a say. And therefor, we attacked the British forces so we could all be free to say whatever we want. -
Mysterious gal NewbieFour score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
Tonque, I'm not asking you to say that you believe. I'm asking you to listen and to hear the voice of our country that once stood so strong and firm in Democracy. -
I'm not going to respond much, because really it's not my place, but jesus: Brevity is the soul of wit, Gal.
Also, I just want to point out that not all the people who signed the declaration believed that everyone should have a say. The condemnation of slavery was removed from the original draft on popular consensus. I guess you only get a voice if you're white, eh?
Furthermore, I don't see how that has anything to do with your argument whatsoever. Seems like you're just trying to do an appeal to authority to justify something entirely legal that you don't like. -
Yeah I didn't really get the reasoning behind that either. I need little lecturing about the Gettysburg Address or the Declaration of Independence or about their historical significance, I've read both and even went to college to study history for awhile. I am more than happy to discuss history but really it just seems like you are changing the subject because you've been called out by the truth and have reached the end of your logical rope.
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Mysterious gal NewbieActually, I haven't. IHLAOY, Abraham Lincoln GAVE the Gettysburg address so that all men would be treated equal. There are only a few out there, now to whom believe that only white should vote. That was back when we still hadn't THOUGHT about our nation falling apart.
And, actually, this is the same subject. All things that have to do with our nation is the same. Weather you like it or not.
Tonque, I will not speak of this further more, for I truly see you are not going to budge. Simple letters cannot change a person's mind, whatsoever.
But, someday, when our country is no longer the nation Washington believed it would be, you'll see that I was politically correct.If I'm wrong, well then, you'll see my apologies.
P.S. (This argument is getting heated. I wonder what can cool it......) -
It's a good thing I didn't say a single thing about the Gettysburg address then, isn't it? And that I merely pointed out that criticisms of slavery were removed from the deceleration of independence at the insistence of multiple founding fathers.
And I don't see how racial relations now have anything to do with that point. Sure, NOW people think that black people are human, but that doesn't change the fact that in the past, especially around the time the deceleration was written, many people were racist. Including the people who wrote the deceleration itself and removed criticisms of slavery from it, as was my assertion.
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