Okay, Christians.
- Locked due to inactivity on Aug 4, '16 4:28pm
Thread Topic: Okay, Christians.
-
Dude, the quote that I originally made this thread for
Er...scripture? Quote? Scripture? Same thing. -
But I already explained why the quote was wrong though. Look, I'll quote it.
It means that most of the things said in the old testament can be safely ignored in modern times, due to God's new law being established in the new testament. (Page 1)
Though of course, if you are referring to using it in a historical context, there are many other factors you need to keep in mind, many of which I don't want to get into at 3:30 in the morning. -
IHLAOY, you do make some great points. But I have to point out one thing.
Noah. The Ark. Mass-Extinction.
Humanity began to not believe in God due to so little-to-none evidence. God gave man free will, yet because they didn't believe in him and there were a few bad apples, he literally tried to wipe them all out.
?? -
^ Yup.
Okay...so you're suggesting the old testament should just be ignored? -
Humanity began to not believe in God due to so little-to-none evidence. God gave man free will, yet because they didn't believe in him and there were a few bad apples, he literally tried to wipe them all out.
Again, divine justice. From a perfectly just God.
Ignoring the fact that they HAD evidence of Gods existence, I don't think you understand just how bad things were in Noah's time. This wasn't 'a few bad apples,' this was literally every person on Earth. Noah was the ONLY PERSON ON THE PLANET who wasn't a complete s---. And God went through the effort to save him because of it. There's something in that statement, but I'm not smart enough to find it.
Anyway, again justice. Imagine a post apocalyptic world where biker gangs drive around raping and murdering people for the fun of it. That's pretty much the time when Noah was alive. It was s---ty, man was incredibly evil, and God judged them (not even as a whole, but on a case by case basis) and his verdict was death. Like a judge in a court room.
And even in all that, he sought out the people who were good, and made sure they were safe.
[quote]Okay...so you're suggesting the old testament should just be ignored?[quote]
I'm saying you should follow Gods new law as outlined by Jesus in the new testament. Some of that law contains sections of the Old Testament, some of it contains sections of the New Testament, and both are equally important. -
Okay I'd say that's pretty selfish to kill everyone, just because they don't believe in you, support you, however you wanna put that. If God really loved his people, he wouldn't just kill them all because they didn't believe in him.
When you say "good", I assume you're referring to people that believed in God. You're making it sound like you have to believe in God to be a good person.
Okay, then where does he state something in the new testament that contradicts the quote? -
Where on earth did I say he killed them because they didn't believe in him? Get it through your head, LISTEN TO WHAT I AM SAYING. Their beliefs had nothing to do with it, when their ACTIONS were so horrible that God felt fit to judge them. As a just God should.
When I say good, I don't refer to people who believe in God, I know many people who are good and don't believe in God. When I say good, I mean PEOPLE WHO ARE GOOD PEOPLE. People who are friendly, or helpful, or just plain nice. GOOD. PEOPLE.
He doesn't say anything specifically against the quote, just as he doesn't say anything specifically about each individual part of the Old Testament because that would be unnecessary and madness.
But since the time of the cross, men live under the law of Christ rather than under the Law of Moses as in the Old Testament times. (John 1:17). Christ fulfilled the Old Covenant (or Law of Moses), nailed it to His cross and ended it there. (Study Luke 24:44 and Col. 2:14). The Old Testament holds no power when compared to the word of Jesus and the new laws he set down. -
I'm curious what this "proof" for God was?
I'm now going to address the Noah argument. Keep in mind this is assuming the biblical stories are true and that history doesn't completely dispel the idea of a mass human extinction.
So what is the point of killing people as a punishment? They don't learn anything from it. It's death. Period. Over. The final cut. There is no trying to learn from your mistakes or fixing what you've done. If you are killed as a punishment then the entire point of being punished was lost.
And an all loving and just God should be able to see that not giving each individual person a chance to do right is flawed logic.
Also, even if the chance was presented to them, an all knowing God should be able to tell that people will follow their culture. None of these people just one day decided to be cruel. It was the commonality of the day. It was practically the only way to survive.
This all knowing, all loving, and all powerful God thought to himself, "Hey, those humans have been getting pretty bad. Oh well, the only one not doing bad things is this Noah guy and his family. Oh well, I'll just wipe out the rest and restart with him." And then he killed everyone. No prewarning. No chance to do better. Just death. No God can kill and then claim to be all loving. No God should have to be forced to kill and claim to be all powerful. These are not the qualities that should be admired and worshiped. They are acts of terror and hate. Ignorance and weakness. And if a deity uses them, are they a God or a Tyrant? -
Oh boy, this will be fun.
The proof for God was that God was physically talking to people in that time and telling them what to do to save themselves, as evidenced by Noah, the only person to listen to him.
What's the point of the death penalty if the person dead doesn't learn anything from it? It's used at the point when a person has rejected all chances at redemption and clearly needs to be stopped before they continue to do bad. Is it wrong to kill a man before he kills another twenty? Is it wrong to kill a man before he tortures a school? It's justice. It's sentencing a man for the crimes that he's committed. It's not meant to be a punishment, it's meant to be a sentence.
Each individual person HAD a chance to do right, in the same way that you have a chance to do right at this very moment. Yet not a single one besides Noah did.
If a culture is built on the raping, murder and enslavement of other people, does a culture deserve to survive? Or would it not be morally just to step in and stop them before more innocents are harmed?
Literally no part of this last paragraph has anything to do with anything in this argument. I tip my fedora to you. -
My last paragraph actually was intended to address what you just said before you said it. But that obviously failed.
To sum it up in layman's terms; could an all powerful God have stopped the violence without killing everyone? And if he could and he didn't, does he deserved to be called all loving? -
ilovepuppyz NoviceYALL IS DUMMIE DUMS
-
Yes, God could have stopped the violence; but I can't believe you're trying to argue against having free will. He could have easily forced everyone to get along and be friendly, but that would have been taking away their free will and their ability to make choices. And how can you love something yet force it to love you back? That's not love, that's fear.
And it's the hallmark of a loving being to never force someone to do what they don't want to do (except in specific circumstances where they know better.) And it's the hallmark of a just being to pass sentence on those who do wrong. God is both, ergo his behavior. -
Salvation NewbieJust saying, Christianity does not have holes in its "theory". Evolution is the idea that has holes. Here is an example. Evolution says that life came from non life. Well, according to the law of bio-Genesis, life can only come from life. Which loses out? The theory or the law?
-
Oh, bugger off mate; adults are talking.
-
Salvation Newbie"Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young but set an example for the believers.
This thread is locked, therefore no new posts can be made.
